Curse

superraptors · Oct 07, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

it is impossible not to pug a couple of players if you want to play nowadays, therefore good guide.

Divinus Stella · Oct 07, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Good guide, avoid people from the continent and people from known lamer guilds.

But surely Borat falls into the catagory of PUG's to avoid.

Xeng Suey · Oct 07, 2009, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I pug. I said it, I pug alot... It's not a secret, and it's not a crime... And I'm here to help some people improve their pugging experience. With HA activity at an all-time low, pugging is the only option most people have right now. (I can only play with my guild from 7-8 PM GMT+1 -If I wanna form before that, I have to pug an intire team)

Therefor, I'm going to write down a few simple and easy guidelines which most of you should know, but are worth noting down nonetheless. It should help some new people learn some basics about pugs aswell.

1) Build

Balanced can not be pugged, so don't attempt at doing so. Sure, U see some high-ranked players look for a Rxx+ pug for balanced every now and then, but most of the people already in the group know eachother, and know their "skills".

There is a common misunderstanding as to why U don't pug balance. People think it's because a balance requires alot of coordination to work, yet in reality, the reason why pugging a balance fails, is because the pugs you get, are most likely not used to running balanced. It hasn't got anything to do with coordination, but rather with the players themselves, who are incapable of running their builds proporly.

So unless you know you're going to get 5-7 reliable people, who you have seen play balanced in HoH (observer), or who you simply know arn't bad, refrain yourself from forming balanced.

Instead, form "easy fame" builds. Hexway, bloodspam, or any buttonbash gimmick comes to mind. Try and save the more skillfull builds for when you play with your guild.

2) Language

Again, something severly underrated by some people. I, myself, am pretty notorious for bashing at bad euro's. The general rule here is simple: If they do not speak the language of the pug-group (Most likely to be english), do not take them.

I have had to kick enough frenchies and germans because they don't speak/understand a word English. *This is NOT negative discrimination* You might get a good run with those people every now and then, but when the battle speeds up on a cap points map, having someone who doesn't understand a word you're saying can definatly cost you the match. Try and avoid this from happening, and don't take said pugs. You'll safe yourself alot of raging...

3) Guilds

Pay attention to guild tags. A guild tag is more than 2 brackets with some letters in between them. It's a tagsign which tells exactly how and what the player plays.

In the old days, if you pugged somebody with the tag [SoG], you knew you had to put this player on an easy bar. Offensive to some? Bullsht... It's the truth. A tag gives you a base on which you can judge a player, and in reality is one of the 2 things that can help you determinate how good a player will be. (Rank and Guild)

Tough, bear in mind that you should know your exceptions. Someone who is in [dR], [eF], ... doesn't necessarily mean they are good players. As most of you know, alot of people buy invites to top guilds, in order to leech their capes.

Thats why the guild tag is a guideline, not a rule. But the in the large majority of cases, the guild tags truly displays what you will get. There is several renowned HA guilds (and tag) for the builds they play. If you don't think someone from a hexway/rspike guild is up for the task, simply do not take him.

Last week, I had a pug from [eXo] (It's a PvE bspam guild) who somehow got rank9. I decided to give him a shot, only to find that he didn't know what armor + sets where, he had no clue how to weapon swap. He only spoke german, and so on. I should have followed my gut, and simply say: No thank you. And you should do so aswell.

4) Observer

Probably the most important factor in pugging. Observe alot... It's something I do naturally, when I don't feel like playing myself, you can usually find me observering (and flaming ) HoH and GvG matches.

This has given me a nice edge in knowing pugs. I can immediatly tell wether or not I should take XX-pug, because I've seen him play/fail on observer.

So when you're obsering matches, don't just observe the general play, but also select people at random, and look at how they play. -weapon swap, die on 40/40?!, etc...-

5) Inactivity

HA is as inactive as ever. (I can really repeat over and over) Whereas my guidelines do give a good idea on how to select people, bear in mind that there isn't alot of people playing anymore. I still have to take atleast 1-2 bad people every time I pug, simply because there isn't any more people playing. And more often than not, we also loose because these people failed beyond reasonable believe. (And then they usually rage themselves, pretending it's the team's/your fault, while typing an excessive amount of "Lulz", "xD" and "noob")

So keep in the back of your mind that you can't be too picky, and if necessary, safe some true bitchbar roles for the worst players. You're doing both them, and yourself a favor this way...

Sad but True story.

Just 1 thing about the discrimination thingy: germans and frenchies have always done discrimination because of the language. So, i dont see any harm done if people discriminate other people because they cant understand english since, as someone said, GW is a game based on comunication and understanding each other (behind, of couse, understanding game mechanics it self). Simple as that....

qvtkc · Oct 28, 2009, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

PvE bspam guild

How does that even happen

Arya Nibelrund · Nov 04, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Do I need to keep deleting the same post again?
No more flames thanks.

Rhamia Darigaz · Nov 05, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eduhard

It's more often like:

player 1: 'deja al guerrero copón!'
player 2: what?¿ speak english you idiot, everybody in the game has to speak english because jesus said so...damn nerds....
player 1: omg....
player 2 left the game

/facepalm

there's a distinct difference between having language as a requirement for entry into a group and believing that everyone in the game should speak english by divine mandate...

Apok Omen · Nov 05, 2009, 04:05 AM // 04:05

I read the words "Borat's Guide To" and I was expecting it to be followed by "Beating Rspike"

I have lost all faith in HA....

Champen · Nov 21, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

I read the words "Borat's Guide To" and I was expecting it to be followed by "Beating Rspike"

I have lost all faith in HA....

R-spike is unbeatable.

bitchbar player · Nov 21, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

yeah he gave up on beating rspike and is now playing bspike

Killed u man · Nov 22, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

^

As opposed to giving up running any other build than rspike, because you get beaten anyways, and simply sticking to rspike.

Bspike farms faster than any other build (Maybe SF). I couldn't care less about HA honor.

I keep getting ganked by some random PvE teams in HoH (They usually gank because they know the other PvE team, who are usually of the same nationality -shit supports shit (Why germans gank for germans)-), so I simply can not be asked forming any decent team anymore.

HA is not worth playing due to the sheer fact that U can't hold. On KoTH, I can pull amazing shit (Interrupt songs, KD pd's, blinds etc), and skill matters.

On relic run and cap points, it's just random who wins, not even including ganks.

Hall of Heroes is no longer a format of "skill" and "build", but rather of "mind-games". How often do you hear your caller say: "We can't do this because we get ganked".

When every move you make stands in order to PREVENT a gank, that means something is seriously wrong with the format. (You can't split for any teams base, or they will just gank u in the end)

This has obviously been true ever since they added shitconditions, but anno 2010, I simply cba playing that shitgame anymore.

I simply form bspam and watch "honorable" balanced builds (WoOm, WoTu, keYs, ...) collapse in under 2 minutes against a 7 man pug team.

Reverend Dr · Nov 23, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

How often do you hear your caller say: "We can't do this because we get ganked".

Every game in tombs since before it released.

Holding HA has never been purely about skill. True before the rotating HA conditions a holding build (and only a holding build, a build that gimps you in every match before HA and makes simple deathmatches take 20 minutes) could strong arm a number of builds out, but HA has always revolved around ganking politics.

This has been brought up before and you've tried to ignore it, you've tried to dismiss it, you've tried to do everything but adapt to it. It isn't like it is a recent change to the arena, its the only thing about the arena that has stayed the same over the years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

When every move you make stands in order to PREVENT a gank, that means something is seriously wrong with the format. (You can't split for any teams base, or they will just gank u in the end)

Considering how many teams really do hate us and will try to force us to lose at all costs, this is surprisingly a very effective way for us to win cap points. What I'm saying is that this statement is wrong.

Kyp Jade · Dec 07, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Not that im planning to come back to gw for uber inactive pvp, but this is probably one of the few things borat posted thats actually... correct. You should mention however that pugs arent expected to win halls regardless of rank, you pug because you want to play pvp and not pve, you dont pug to win or even get good, you pug to __play__

and my guild didnt even get an honorable mention during the post

... Your still probably mad I could use and coordinate aoe better than anyone else in that era... AoE wins games dude, you can bash it but it wins just as many normal matches as it does cap pts matches

radevil · Dec 09, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

This post is freaking arrogant, you're one of the reasons of why many ppl just don't play PvP, this is a game, and it's about having fun, getting into a PvP arena and don't find a group becouse you don't have a rank, and after that, being discriminated becouse you don't speak english well?? called n00b, being kicked and insulted, come on!!. What's the result o all this??? HA completely alone.

Killed u man · Dec 09, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by radevil

""

True, A game is supposed to be fun. But "fun" doesn't win games, people not being bad does.

I always have fun when I play, even when we loose I still have a small feeling of satisfaction, but when you have someone who has absolutely no clue what he's doing, it simply isn't fun.

the_jos · Dec 09, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by radevil

.....something about PvP and fun....

Let's bring this to the real world.
In any kind of sports where people need to team up and pick their own team you see preferences.
When the group is unknown they will first pick people with certain physical features that might be advantageous.
When the group starts to know each other they will pick the 'known bests' first.
When only when the remaining known players are considered 'bad' the unknown will come into play.
Why? Even if the sport is just for fun winning is part of it. So people form teams that have most chance to win.

Then we have language. You know what? I had a guildie who was scared to speak on Vent because of his voice. He now talks on Vent and people don't care about his foreign accent. However, language is important. I had a couple of people from the high parts of the UK in my guild and they were very different to understand sometimes, specially for the non-native English speakers. That's annoying when you need to work together.
People making fun of my accent? I don't care. I mainly talk when I need to.
If people don't want me to talk they lack information they might need.

Last on rank.... I have this guildie. He's the son of two long time RL friends of mine. He's not that good of a player if you ask me. Still he got his bambi in not that much time. He just worked for it.
Rank is nothing but a little note that says: "Hey, I played this game before".

Bottom line, if you want to have more fun in PvP make sure you become part of the 'known (potential) good/decent players'. Meaning you need to do some grind to be seen and then some more grind to meet better players.

Nemo the Capitalist · Dec 15, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Great Guide but we know some of this stuff Glad you made it nonetheless Gratz Borat.

diabiosx · Dec 21, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I pug balanced my way to from r7-r10 :-\ 100%
I pug balanced r6-7 50%

I think the most important thing to pugging is FL all the people in team when you make good runs.

BTW rage isnt part of my language when people fail :-P or ganks me

I'm r12 atm(1.3k to r13) and am getting ganked 24/7 in halls -_- when will it stop?! lol

urania · Dec 22, 2009, 12:19 AM // 00:19

An interesting thread. Since I find it slightly inaccurate and since the situation is similar in any pvp arena I'll post my thoughts on it from a 4v4 arenas point of view.

As far as rank is concerned...no definite conclusions can be made when judging a rank of a person you dont know, because TOO MANY ways of attaining ranks have accumulated over time to be certain of only one (surely one would still choose a g7+ over no rank if one would be desperate to play, but I prefer to avoid such desperate pugging). For example:
the amount of time played in total, the play times/time zones (dead hours vs active hours vs events), the means/builds used when playing (fast lame vs slower "balanced"), the people one has played with (bad mates->more time needed to acquire a rank and vice versa) ad the list goes on.
From those few aspects of attaining ranks alone one can construct several combinations out of which one can partally conclude whether a player is good, great, bad, potenatially talented, a prodigy or a failure in disguise, but to see the full scope of a player's potential and actual skill you need to PLAY with them, watch them how they act in a situation and how they react on unexpected things, whether they master the basic and the more advanced game aspects, see if they have the physical means to show their full potential (bad ping and bad pc both decrease that).

As far as the language barrier is concerned, you are NOT completely right.
Experienced and good players need rather little communication and instructions on what to do and when - they will do it automatically out of habit and through field observation. Often you can indicate a target or a desired action by pinging the target or pinging on the map, but normally not even that is needed.
I successfully played with every kind of people, from koreans to germans who couldnt speak any english or could barely speak it.

Also, note that guild tag is virtually irrelevant now with so many gold and silver capes and so many leechers every where. I'm not saying every leecher is a bad player and every core player a good one, but its a thing one has to cary in mind.

But hey, considering how much the game has been dumbed down, it's unlikely that all or (m)any of the things i listed count still.

Krill · Dec 22, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

but when the battle speeds up on a cap points map, having someone who doesn't understand a word you're saying can definatly cost you the match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Experienced and good players need rather little communication and instructions on what to do and when - they will do it automatically out of habit and through field observation. Often you can indicate a target or a desired action by pinging the target or pinging on the map, but normally not even that is needed.

You're far too generous assuming puggers are capable of doing much without complete micro. Leading a pug to victory against a decent team on cap points or relic runs requires a lot of micro and experience vs. various meta builds. For instance, forgotten shrines vs. contagion or any other spike build that ganks right away you need to immediately adjust tactics and it's very difficult without vent. There are only a handful of pug leaders who are capable of doing objectives relatively smoothly and whether you like him or not Borat is one of them.

diabiosx · Dec 22, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

A pug is someone who you play with for a day, watching someone play so closely is a waste of time, if you are watching them play this carefully it means you arent doing your job.

BTW microing dont always work, it really depends on the players. The few times that ive pugged nowadays Ive always beaten borat in every map I met him in so Krill your statement is opinion, and he always says pugs ftl, fail pugs when he loses LAWL when my group was pug as well! But I do appreciate that he plays super weird builds.